Vermoeidheidsvirus wig Radboud en Amerika

Hier kan gediscussieerd worden over nieuws, artikelen en onderzoek over ME (cvs)

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zonaanbidster
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Berichten: 949
Lid geworden op: 08 jun 2007, 23:49

Bericht door zonaanbidster »

nee Punika en nu halen ze de verwachte lage percentage. :roll: DWZ die wij met zijn allen op basis van de verkeerde criteria ingeschat hadden. En dat kunnen ze niet gebruiken. Dat wilden ze niet en dus niet opgenomen in hun publicatie.
En nu hebben ze een probleem. :wink: :P

Bericht wordt gelukkig inmiddels overgenomen door buitenlandse sites en groepen. Naar ik hoop en aanneem, komen er ook reacties uit Engeland.
Dat was immers eerder ook steeds het geval. Bovendien deze commotie is nav de brief van Annette van WPI maar er staat ook een onderzoeker van UK vermeld he. Daar hebben we nog niks over gehoord.
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verlorengezondheidman
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Lid geworden op: 02 aug 2008, 17:24

Bericht door verlorengezondheidman »

@Melanie;

Wat betreft het gebruik van die oude bloedstalen; zelfs uit de bloedstalen uit 1991 is/wordt XMRV-virus gevonden, zie onderstaande reactie "Gelderlander"die ik jullie niet wil onthouden.
de Amerikaanse stalen komen niet uit één specifiek gebied, maar van patienten door de gehele USA, juist dat heeft het WPI in haar laatste brief uitgebreid uiteengezet!

En in het enige lab dat tot op heden een redelijk sensitieve XMRV test heeft (vipdx), worden dagelijks positieve XMRV gevallen gevonden.

Zelfs in deze Nijmeegse bloedstalen van 20 jaar oud(1991), waarbij patienten zichzelf als ME patient hadden geselecteerd door het invullen van een vragenlijst (deze patienten zijn dus niet medisch onderzocht!!!), waarbij mogelijk dus een groot aantal depressieve/geen ME-patienten zitten, vindt het WPI een significant aantal XMRV-gevallen!

het WPI heeft haar resultaten onder meer laten verifieren door het Amerikaanse National Cancer Institute, en aan de Science studie werkte de eerste ontdekker van het XMRV virus (Silverman) mee!!! Maar toegeven dat Nijmegen ernaast zit (en ME dus niet psychisch is), zou het einde van hun hele Chronische vermoeidheidscentrum betekenen, einde carriere, reputatie, macht, geld etc
In het buitenland neemt niemand deze clowns nog serieus, maar helaas hebben ze in Nederland veel macht



Flipper - 17-04-2010 | 12:09
Mede hierdoor schat ik dat het geschatte aantal ME-patienten in Nederland (30.000 :roll: ) weleens veel hoger zou kunnen uitvallen, dan tot op heden wordt geschat/gedacht :roll: :!:

M.a.w.; Je kunt blijkbaar met ME/CVS rondlopen (=met een levensbedreigend, besmettelijk en onbehandeld?! RETRO-virus rondlopen) zonder medisch onderzocht te zijn (geweest) :shock:
Een zoönose is een infectieziekte die kan worden overgedragen van dieren op mensen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVQy9-cyL98

LyME en co's INFO-topic!
http://www.me-gids.net/index.php?name=P ... ht=#218551
Gast

Bericht door Gast »

En hoppakee , nu maakt de Gelderlander er dit van : http://www.me-gids.net/module-ME_CVS_do ... d-539.html

Radboud en instituut VS ruziën over onderzoek

Ik begin de objectiviteit van de Gelder nu toch wel een beetje te betwijfelen eerlijk gezegd.
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Henny
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Lid geworden op: 20 feb 2006, 12:36

Bericht door Henny »

Correctie: uitzending over Lymepatienten van 16 april j.l. vanaf 9.33:
http://player.omroep.nl/?aflid=10847999
Volgens mij heb je te veel gedaan als je niet binnen drie dagen herstelt. Anders heb je hooguit je grenzen verkend.
Melanie
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Lid geworden op: 04 sep 2008, 13:35

Bericht door Melanie »

@vgzm heb jij deze reactie al gelezen; betreft reacties op artikel in de Gelderlander.
EVEN MORE PROBLEMS WITH THE VAN KUPPEVELD STUDY
Consider the failed XMRV/CFS studies. An analysis of the British Medical Journal’s van Kuppeveld paper on XMRV, presented as the "trump card" in negative XMRV/CFS research, reveals that their 20 year old blood samples were not from Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (ME/CFS) patients, and not remotely comparable to the Science CFS cohort. The BMJ (Nijmegen team) represented their (Vercoulen et al) cohort as CFS, when in fact they were largely studying the blood of tired, depressed patients. Here's the evidence:

Some shocking quotes from the study where the BMJ and Nijmegen’s 20 year old blood came from:
• “Information on physical abnormalities and treatment relied on self-report”.
• “Using a score of 16 or more, 36% of patients could be considered as having a clinical depression.”
• “To test generalizability, the present study sample was compared with a recently tested group of 68 patients with Unexplained Fatigue” (not CFS).
• And the clincher: the source of the blood came from a study where they, “Minimalized the risk of including patients with delayed convalescence of a viral infection”.

For a detailed analysis of the BMJ article's flaws, complete with meticulous references, see: http://www.forums.aboutmecfs.org/showth ... S-Research the 5-part article Scandal in BMJ’s XMRV/CFS Research, posts #1,2,4,6,7. The BMJ stated their XMRV research was on a “well-defined cohort” of CFS patients, when it was on a group of depressed patients with Unexplained Fatigue – which had been explicitly screened to remove patients with “delayed convalescence of a viral infection”. Not much chance of finding XMRV in that cohort. How strong are the BMJ’s conclusions that XMRV isn’t in the UK – and that it isn’t associated with CFS!

GLAXO SMITH KLINE FOLLOWING THE SCIENCE METHODOLOGY
Pharma giant Glaxo Smith Kline just announced their own study into XMRV and ME/CFS and are so confident in the Science results that they are using positive XMRV samples from patients studied by the Science researchers (See: http://www.forums.aboutmecfs.org/showth ... undertaken ). In other words, GSK “gets” the difference between research on cohorts of depressed, tired patients; versus patients with rigorously defined Canadian/Fukuda criteria ME/CFS, reproducible immune abnormalities, and severe, disabling fatigue. Further, by using positive samples from actual CFS patients with XMRV in the Science study, GSK is in effect saying:
1) We believe that XMRV exists; and
2) We believe that you found XMRV in CFS patients.
3) Further, we believe that it is necessary to look for XMRV in rigorously defined cohorts of ME/CFS patients, particularly those with a viral onset - rather than 20-year old samples of tired, depressed patients. Now, can we please use your samples as a positive control?

PROSTATE CANCER RESEARCHERS JUMPING INTO CFS/XMRV RESEARCH
What is perhaps most compelling about the XMRV/CFS linkage is that renowned prostate cancer researchers are crossing over to the “dark side”: namely ME/CFS research. It appears that some (not all) patients with the most malignant prostate cancer Gleason Grades (and XMRV infection) share a genetic defect that is also found in many XMRV-positive ME/CFS patients: namely a defect in the RNase-L antiviral pathway. If you remember high-school chemistry, the suffix “ase” describes an enzyme, or a chemical that breaks down things. RNase breaks down RNA – and (you guessed it), XMRV, and indeed all retroviruses are made up of RNA. In short, some prostate cancer and ME/CFS patients share a genetic susceptibility to viral infection.

Dr Robert Silverman, prostate cancer expert, was in fact one of the authors of the Science paper on XMRV and ME/CFS. His organization, the renowned Cleveland Clinic has drawn an interesting line in the sand. Just recently, the Cleveland Clinic very publicly announced an award to Dr Silverman and his colleague Dr Klein for discovering the linkage between XMRV, prostate cancer, ME/CFS, and RNase-L (See 2-minute video @ the Cleveland Clinic's YouTube site: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWOWvdiXiSE ). Drs Silverman and Klein are being compared to the likes of Dr Sones, who pioneered the use of injectable dye imaging in cardiac surgery.

Similarly, Dr Ila Singh, another eminent prostate cancer researcher, has been forging full-speed ahead in XMRV research on prostate cancer AND ME/CFS. She has wasted no time, testing 45 compounds and 28 drugs on XMRV “in vitro” (or in the test tube)- and being reported widely in media such as USA Today and Scientific American. Not the behavior one would expect from someone who thinks XMRV is benign. Dr Singh clearly "gets" the plausability of the potential link with ME/CFS. As her team commented in their source article: http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchArt ... ne.0009948

"... the notion that a retrovirus might be involved in both cancer and a neuroimmune illness in humans is not without precedence. Human T-cell lymphotrophic virus, type 1 (HTLV-1), another retrovirus, causes both T-cell lymphoma/leukemia as well as tropical spastic paraparesis, a myelopathy due to immune defects resulting from the viral infection."

THE PSYCHIATRY ANGLE
And now for the psychiatry angle: psychiatrists studying this viral neuro-immune disease have been stating for years that the most rigorous Canadian Criteria (2003) for ME/CFS (Summary here: http://www.cfids-cab.org/MESA/me_overview.pdf ) are just too difficult to apply in research. They have also advantageously expanded their market for exercise and feel-good clinics, by including out-of-shape patients, depressed patients, patients with Unexplained Fatigue, together with patients with classical Canadian-Criteria ME/CFS. In fact in the UK, patients with a diagnosis of ME/CFS are routinely denied biological diagnostics, such as lab-work or immunological workups. This creates a self-fulfilling prophesy, a delusion on the part of psychiatrists that ME/CFS has no physicial findings. Eschewing the rigorous Canadian Criteria is a little like saying one should abandon speed limits because no one likes to follow them. Or lumping together appendicitis patients with diffuse stomach ache patients to "simplify" research. Like appendicitis, which has right-sided abdominal pain as a cardinal sign, ME/CFS's hallmark is Post-Exertional Malaise - something the 3 failed XMRV studies have not fastidiously observed. A helpful primer on the importance of CFS criteria has just been made available this week by noted CFS psychologist, Dr Leonard Jason. His slides on how CFS cohort selection can bias research outcomes, can be seen at: www.cfids.org/webinar/jason-slides041410.pdf

These are fascinating times, as retrovirologists and politically-motivated psychiatrists jockey for position. After all, psychiatrists have built an entire industry of exercise and "positive attitude" clinics for patients who are known in the biomedical literature to have persistent opportunistic infections - and who may also have a cancer-causing retrovirus: XMRV. And the psychs won’t give up their fiefdoms without a fight. But it is nothing short of earth-shaking that the BMJ's XMRV research team committed such an enormous research blunder – while the "big boys" in immunology, molecular biology, retrovirology and oncology take over the exploration of what may indeed be the next AIDS.
Science Based - 18-04-2010 | 11:44
Dear Karma, I have a list of people you missed
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